Comments on: Montage http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html Boat Design, Boat Building, Kayaks, Sailing, Canoes, Multihulls, Catamarans, Trimarans Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Peter Erik Fuchs http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-424 Peter Erik Fuchs Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:06:09 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-424 Hi Chris: I have great respect for what Roger and Chris Kitchen have achieved with the WETA and I have been fortunate to sail one of the 2 first boats to arrive here in Japan. The y have done a remarkably good job of fine-tuning the design around what matters, ease of use, modern mast and sail design etc. Yet the cost factor! I have bought a hull license for the i550 from Watershed to have the fun/challenge of building a sportboat locally here in Japan. That said, I would also be happy to pay you for the completed plans (and if possible full-size Tyvek or other plastic layout material. Responsibly forested plywood is remarkably cheap now in Japan, and I would love to get started on the Montage ahead of the monohull i550. We have lots of hardly used 470s in Japan, as the sport is suffering a lack of participation, but many colleges own boats without sailors. Please let me know when you can have the metric version of the plans for the Montage ready to ship - hopefully with practical hints, esp. regarding alum. proa tube shapes. All the best Peter in Tokyo Hi Chris: I have great respect for what Roger and Chris Kitchen have achieved with the WETA and I have been fortunate to sail one of the 2 first boats to arrive here in Japan. The y have done a remarkably good job of fine-tuning the design around what matters, ease of use, modern mast and sail design etc. Yet the cost factor! I have bought a hull license for the i550 from Watershed to have the fun/challenge of building a sportboat locally here in Japan. That said, I would also be happy to pay you for the completed plans (and if possible full-size Tyvek or other plastic layout material. Responsibly forested plywood is remarkably cheap now in Japan, and I would love to get started on the Montage ahead of the monohull i550. We have lots of hardly used 470s in Japan, as the sport is suffering a lack of participation, but many colleges own boats without sailors. Please let me know when you can have the metric version of the plans for the Montage ready to ship – hopefully with practical hints, esp. regarding alum. proa tube shapes. All the best Peter in Tokyo

]]> By: Peter http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-396 Peter Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:52:21 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-396 Chris, what a great idea. If the plans are finished I'd love to buy a set. Regards Pete Chris, what a great idea. If the plans are finished I’d love to buy a set.
Regards Pete

]]> By: Mike http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-300 Mike Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:09:08 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-300 Chris, I recently purchased a Windrider 16. It truly is a solo craft, seating on the trampolines is very wet, and uncomfortable. I have a wife and 2 kids I want to do the family sailing with. I have not sailed a Windrider 17 yet, but I am leaning on that being the replacement. Your design here is very interesting. How many hours could an average DIY expect to invest in this project? Is there any requirement for special equipment? Thanks. Chris,

I recently purchased a Windrider 16. It truly is a solo craft, seating on the trampolines is very wet, and uncomfortable. I have a wife and 2 kids I want to do the family sailing with. I have not sailed a Windrider 17 yet, but I am leaning on that being the replacement. Your design here is very interesting. How many hours could an average DIY expect to invest in this project? Is there any requirement for special equipment?

Thanks.

]]> By: Eric Jones http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-291 Eric Jones Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:41:58 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-291 This is a great design, largely due to the fact that it realizes the use of the outer hulls as a second set of blades. It's fairly easy to see in the last picture. As it heels to leward, it's going to put the leward hull straight down in the water, and go up on the corner of the main hull. It's brilliant, but there are two things that need addressing. I sail in the San Francisco Bay in California usually racing CFJs, and the first thing that hits me looking at this, is that if one person is sailing it with one more person in it, the skipper may want to be hiked all the way out, harness included. It may be a good idea to continue the tarp around the outside of the outer hulls from where it ends now. If that becomes the case, you may want to make a rudder bar with three points: one in the cockpit and one on each wing. You could even do something stylized with that, like putting them on light springs to keep them out of the way. My main point is that in heavy wind, this boat will most likely start to shake. Another idea, just to make things easier for the skipper, would be to not only split the main and jib sheets so that they would end in the cockpit and both wings, but to put the aft jib on a car, so that the ship could potentially be single-handed. A somewhat smaller, but more annoying alternative to splitting the sheets would be to make a third hand device for one's belt. That would solve the same problem, but weigh the sailor down dangerously. This is a great design, largely due to the fact that it realizes the use of the outer hulls as a second set of blades. It’s fairly easy to see in the last picture. As it heels to leward, it’s going to put the leward hull straight down in the water, and go up on the corner of the main hull. It’s brilliant, but there are two things that need addressing.
I sail in the San Francisco Bay in California usually racing CFJs, and the first thing that hits me looking at this, is that if one person is sailing it with one more person in it, the skipper may want to be hiked all the way out, harness included. It may be a good idea to continue the tarp around the outside of the outer hulls from where it ends now. If that becomes the case, you may want to make a rudder bar with three points: one in the cockpit and one on each wing. You could even do something stylized with that, like putting them on light springs to keep them out of the way. My main point is that in heavy wind, this boat will most likely start to shake.
Another idea, just to make things easier for the skipper, would be to not only split the main and jib sheets so that they would end in the cockpit and both wings, but to put the aft jib on a car, so that the ship could potentially be single-handed.
A somewhat smaller, but more annoying alternative to splitting the sheets would be to make a third hand device for one’s belt. That would solve the same problem, but weigh the sailor down dangerously.

]]> By: Emanuel http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-220 Emanuel Sun, 05 Apr 2009 13:25:33 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-220 I am greatly interested in this project for all the reasons you have outlined. Do you have a price for plans yet ? i am writing from Brazil! **************************** Hi Emanuel, Thanks for the fine words. The plan package will run USD$150 The Montage should be a terrific boat for hundreds of sailing locations in Brazil. Chris I am greatly interested in this project for all the reasons you have outlined. Do you have a price for plans yet ?
i am writing from Brazil!
****************************
Hi Emanuel,
Thanks for the fine words. The plan package will run USD$150
The Montage should be a terrific boat for hundreds of sailing locations in Brazil.

Chris

]]> By: Gerhard http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-163 Gerhard Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:17:21 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-163 I think that the Montage would be a terrific boata here in Brazil. What is the cost of the plans? ********************************* Gerhard, The plans will be USD$125 when completed. I would estimate that they will be ready in the next three weeks (end of March) I will send you a notice via email as soon as they are ready. Chris Ostlind I think that the Montage would be a terrific boata here in Brazil. What is the cost of the plans?
*********************************

Gerhard,

The plans will be USD$125 when completed. I would estimate that they will be ready in the next three weeks (end of March)
I will send you a notice via email as soon as they are ready.
Chris Ostlind

]]> By: Manfred Pech http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-160 Manfred Pech Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:34:26 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-160 Hi Chris, I tried to compare the lines of Wetas main hull with yours and (as far as this is possible) found out, that Montage is the more consequent skiff hull than Weta. This in my opinion will offer sooner and better planing, but I can not amagine the drawbacks of this solution for a Trimaran. The most interesting I have read about Skiff hulls was from Frank Bethwaite (High Performance Sailing) comparing different hulls (Chapter 20: Hulls, P.247 ff) and the "Intership Report, 49er performance enhancement", May-July 2007, P. 6ff, describing tests and the following refinements of the 49er hull. Especially the positive effect of chines has been tested and discussed. As a result the chines have been sharpened and the after section has been sanded to be perfectly plane. This is a strong vote for a plane plywood bottom (P.16) and will help to get a better water flow separation when the boat is planing (froude 1.2 plus) (Page 17). From this point I think the chines of Montage are very important and more effective as on Weta and I am interested to hear, how this combination with the floats will work. I do not know if you have heard of John S. Taylor (Aus), who designed and built a 20ft Trimaran with planing main and planing floats. This Trimaran is said to have been clocked 309 NM per 24 hours. Do you think it is usefull to design planing floats too ? Regards, Manfred **************************** Thanks for your interesting comments, Manfred. I'm flattered that you have taken the time to look at the design with such a technical eye. You are right, I was looking to get the main hull of the Montage up on plane early, so that the owner/builder could get a solid return on his effort and expense. I also agree that there is a beneficial result from the chined hull sections with regards to separation. I looked at a lot of power boat hulls while I was tinkering with the design and saw real advantages in that direction. As for planing floats to produce a fully planing trimaran... I do see the potential in that direction, but there is a price to pay at slow speed. I find that, for a recreational boat, the use of slender amas is more beneficial for good all around sailing. This means that the average sailor driving the Montage will be able to enjoy the performance potential over a wider range of wind and boat speeds. If a person lived in a location where consistent strong winds were present, then it could be a real blast to have a fully planing version of this boat as a daysailor. Chris Hi Chris,
I tried to compare the lines of Wetas main hull with yours and (as far as this is possible) found out, that Montage is the more consequent skiff hull than Weta. This in my opinion will offer sooner and better planing, but I can not amagine the drawbacks of this solution for a Trimaran.

The most interesting I have read about Skiff hulls was from Frank Bethwaite (High Performance Sailing) comparing different hulls (Chapter 20: Hulls, P.247 ff) and the “Intership Report, 49er performance enhancement”, May-July 2007, P. 6ff, describing tests and the following refinements of the 49er hull. Especially the positive effect of chines has been tested and discussed.

As a result the chines have been sharpened and the after section has been sanded to be perfectly plane. This is a strong vote for a plane plywood bottom (P.16) and will help to get a better water flow separation when the boat is planing (froude 1.2 plus) (Page 17).

From this point I think the chines of Montage are very important and more effective as on Weta and I am interested to hear, how this combination with the floats will work.

I do not know if you have heard of John S. Taylor (Aus), who designed and built a 20ft Trimaran with planing main and planing floats. This Trimaran is said to have been clocked 309 NM per 24 hours.

Do you think it is usefull to design planing floats too ?
Regards, Manfred

****************************
Thanks for your interesting comments, Manfred. I’m flattered that you have taken the time to look at the design with such a technical eye.

You are right, I was looking to get the main hull of the Montage up on plane early, so that the owner/builder could get a solid return on his effort and expense.

I also agree that there is a beneficial result from the chined hull sections with regards to separation. I looked at a lot of power boat hulls while I was tinkering with the design and saw real advantages in that direction.

As for planing floats to produce a fully planing trimaran… I do see the potential in that direction, but there is a price to pay at slow speed. I find that, for a recreational boat, the use of slender amas is more beneficial for good all around sailing. This means that the average sailor driving the Montage will be able to enjoy the performance potential over a wider range of wind and boat speeds. If a person lived in a location where consistent strong winds were present, then it could be a real blast to have a fully planing version of this boat as a daysailor.

Chris

]]> By: Dan http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-155 Dan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:36:29 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-155 Looks great! Dan *********************** Thanks, Dan Chris Looks great!

Dan

***********************

Thanks, Dan

Chris

]]> By: Roger Dann http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-154 Roger Dann Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:49:46 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-154 Hi Chris, we are always looking for new ideas. We are a small startup company selling 8m catamarans at present but I'm looking for a small simple beach tri to produce in China and market around the world. Interested? Regards, Roger Dann Hi Chris,
we are always looking for new ideas. We are a small startup company selling 8m catamarans at present but I’m looking for a small simple beach tri to produce in China and market around the world. Interested?
Regards,
Roger Dann

]]> By: john colley http://www.lunadadesign.com/montage-trimaranskiff.html/comment-page-1#comment-153 john colley Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:41:53 +0000 http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=196#comment-153 I love the design and concept. I have a 17footer pirogue which will be fitted with substantial outriggers and mast too. For just the same reason you have said, fun and carefree sailing. Look foreward to seeing the plans. ****************************** Thanks, John. I'd like to see your pirogue project as you move along your design/build path. It sounds interesting and you just may end-up a total small trimaran nut, if you're not careful. ChrisO I love the design and concept. I have a 17footer pirogue which will be fitted with substantial outriggers and mast too. For just the same reason you have said, fun and carefree sailing. Look foreward to seeing the plans.

******************************

Thanks, John.

I’d like to see your pirogue project as you move along your design/build path. It sounds interesting and you just may end-up a total small trimaran nut, if you’re not careful.

ChrisO

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