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	<title>Comments on: Should I Patent My Widget for the Boat Industry?</title>
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	<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html</link>
	<description>Boat Design, Boat Building, Kayaks, Sailing, Canoes, Multihulls, Catamarans, Trimarans</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tony Ellen</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Ellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-366</guid>
		<description>In short the Farrier folder check the patents lodged as he developed his design some I&#039;ve found he has not used but they must block others development so even though he has developed further advances and patented them he has chosen not to use them (yet)
Is this not a true case of a master mind using a patent to its fullest potential?
Look forward to views.
Tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In short the Farrier folder check the patents lodged as he developed his design some I&#8217;ve found he has not used but they must block others development so even though he has developed further advances and patented them he has chosen not to use them (yet)<br />
Is this not a true case of a master mind using a patent to its fullest potential?<br />
Look forward to views.<br />
Tony</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Dillahunty</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-303</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Dillahunty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-303</guid>
		<description>Funny how I seem to follow Chuck around sometimes :-)

Seriously, great site and I really enjoyed this article. I had been at a bookstore tonight and considered checking out the &quot;how to get a patent&quot; books on an idea I have, but couldn&#039;t face it.

Maybe its best if I don&#039;t face it at all :-)

Put a link to you on my site, for what it&#039;s worth.

http://www.craftacraft.com/lunada_design

***************************************

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the note and my apologies for not getting to the correspondence sooner. The patent game is a curious enterprise and not for the feint hearted as costs and realities lurk around every corner. 

Thanks for the link as it all helps.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how I seem to follow Chuck around sometimes <img src='http://www.lunadadesign.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Seriously, great site and I really enjoyed this article. I had been at a bookstore tonight and considered checking out the &#8220;how to get a patent&#8221; books on an idea I have, but couldn&#8217;t face it.</p>
<p>Maybe its best if I don&#8217;t face it at all <img src='http://www.lunadadesign.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Put a link to you on my site, for what it&#8217;s worth.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.craftacraft.com/lunada_design" rel="nofollow">http://www.craftacraft.com/lunada_design</a></p>
<p>***************************************</p>
<p>Hi Bruce,</p>
<p>Thanks for the note and my apologies for not getting to the correspondence sooner. The patent game is a curious enterprise and not for the feint hearted as costs and realities lurk around every corner. </p>
<p>Thanks for the link as it all helps.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Leinweber</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Leinweber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-212</guid>
		<description>Chris. I think I have told you before that I worked as a patternmaker and modelmaker for 25 years before I got this web gig. In that time, I came in contact and did work for a number of inventors and patent holders. Like you, I got some of their money and later saw them all fall on their faces. I don&#039;t think I ever saw a single successful patented idea. I have seen ideas successfully developed, however - it is just that those guys did not fool with patents. 
Chuck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris. I think I have told you before that I worked as a patternmaker and modelmaker for 25 years before I got this web gig. In that time, I came in contact and did work for a number of inventors and patent holders. Like you, I got some of their money and later saw them all fall on their faces. I don&#8217;t think I ever saw a single successful patented idea. I have seen ideas successfully developed, however &#8211; it is just that those guys did not fool with patents.<br />
Chuck</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-193</guid>
		<description>I thought it was funny when Bladerider tried to patent everything under the sun, all of which they &quot;borrowed&quot; from the development Moth community.  Glad none of it went through.
********************
Me too, Sam. They are a fairly aggressive outfit, no?

Chris O</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was funny when Bladerider tried to patent everything under the sun, all of which they &#8220;borrowed&#8221; from the development Moth community.  Glad none of it went through.<br />
********************<br />
Me too, Sam. They are a fairly aggressive outfit, no?</p>
<p>Chris O</p>
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		<title>By: Thom D</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Thom D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 02:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-185</guid>
		<description>I think one thing that a patent can do for you is protect your right to use the invention yourself.  It is always framed as a how do I commercialize the invention and stop the idea from being stolen thing.  As you point out theft/evolution is a given, but if you don&#039;t at least get a patent you may not always be able to use the idea yourself.  I think that mainly affects someone who is in a market, but possibly not to a large extent. I know of one situation where a guy partnered with a larger company to get his product made precisely so they would defend the patent, while he carried on making the crafty version of the same thing as before.

If one doesn&#039;t have any commercial interest, then it is mainly an ego thing.  The ego drive is getting pretty thin these days, as the patent office issues patents with the gusto of a Mortgage broker pre-crash.

*****************************

Agreed, Thom. To me, it all comes down to the best place to spend the available cash. Being a guy from working class roots, I tend to avoid attorneys as much as is possible. 

Chris O
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one thing that a patent can do for you is protect your right to use the invention yourself.  It is always framed as a how do I commercialize the invention and stop the idea from being stolen thing.  As you point out theft/evolution is a given, but if you don&#8217;t at least get a patent you may not always be able to use the idea yourself.  I think that mainly affects someone who is in a market, but possibly not to a large extent. I know of one situation where a guy partnered with a larger company to get his product made precisely so they would defend the patent, while he carried on making the crafty version of the same thing as before.</p>
<p>If one doesn&#8217;t have any commercial interest, then it is mainly an ego thing.  The ego drive is getting pretty thin these days, as the patent office issues patents with the gusto of a Mortgage broker pre-crash.</p>
<p>*****************************</p>
<p>Agreed, Thom. To me, it all comes down to the best place to spend the available cash. Being a guy from working class roots, I tend to avoid attorneys as much as is possible. </p>
<p>Chris O</p>
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		<title>By: lunadadesign</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>lunadadesign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-144</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments, Roger. I do understand the position from which you are making your comments. I&#039;m happy that you have had such a positive experience with your patent process efforts and wish you all the good fortune you may be able to harvest from your efforts.

1. You do not consider it hard to write your own patent. That is highly commendable, but perhaps you may wish to consider that most folks do not have a solid level of control over their own mother tongue, much less apply themselves to learn another with different sentence structure and grammatical nuance. Go read the postings that are put up on the average discussion forum and you&#039;ll see that the desire to communicate has far outstripped the ability of the average person to actually write that need with any kind of accomplished skill. It&#039;s even worse to expect them to be able to write a patent application and support it with a long list of arcane descriptions.

2. The assigned exclusivity of the patent is only as good as the willingness and financial ability of the holder to defend that right in court. If the holder can not, or chooses to not, defend the right, then the patent becomes instantly useless as a tool of anything exclusive. The claims are moot without a pursuit of defending the process.

3. Publication only serves those who would choose to produce their own version of said patentable item. It gives anyone of them a dandy target for making their own version, just different enough that they can easily get around the patent claims of the original holder.

4. Protecting one&#039;s rights are totally and inextricably intertwined with the patenting process. Without a protection process from the original holder, the patent is virtually non-functional. This process can range from the kindly worded initial communication, to the full-on court business of filing suit. Nevertheless, it is connected completely and has no reason to exist without the original patent. One does not go out and sue people for creating their own product unless there is a function of the law from which they can operate in the first place. Hence, the patent and the defense of same go hand in hand.

Maybe you are one of the fortunate folks who have the financial wherewithal to pursue the individuals, or companies, that swipe your patented ideas for their own gain. Believe me, it makes me happy if that is the case. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who have patents issued each year are not so well endowed financially and, as a result, they can only sit and watch as they are functionally ripped-off by someone else.

Thank you for your contribution here, Roger. It&#039;s always good to hear from the other side of the argument and I wish you great success in your efforts.

Best Regards,

Chris Ostlind</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments, Roger. I do understand the position from which you are making your comments. I&#8217;m happy that you have had such a positive experience with your patent process efforts and wish you all the good fortune you may be able to harvest from your efforts.</p>
<p>1. You do not consider it hard to write your own patent. That is highly commendable, but perhaps you may wish to consider that most folks do not have a solid level of control over their own mother tongue, much less apply themselves to learn another with different sentence structure and grammatical nuance. Go read the postings that are put up on the average discussion forum and you&#8217;ll see that the desire to communicate has far outstripped the ability of the average person to actually write that need with any kind of accomplished skill. It&#8217;s even worse to expect them to be able to write a patent application and support it with a long list of arcane descriptions.</p>
<p>2. The assigned exclusivity of the patent is only as good as the willingness and financial ability of the holder to defend that right in court. If the holder can not, or chooses to not, defend the right, then the patent becomes instantly useless as a tool of anything exclusive. The claims are moot without a pursuit of defending the process.</p>
<p>3. Publication only serves those who would choose to produce their own version of said patentable item. It gives anyone of them a dandy target for making their own version, just different enough that they can easily get around the patent claims of the original holder.</p>
<p>4. Protecting one&#8217;s rights are totally and inextricably intertwined with the patenting process. Without a protection process from the original holder, the patent is virtually non-functional. This process can range from the kindly worded initial communication, to the full-on court business of filing suit. Nevertheless, it is connected completely and has no reason to exist without the original patent. One does not go out and sue people for creating their own product unless there is a function of the law from which they can operate in the first place. Hence, the patent and the defense of same go hand in hand.</p>
<p>Maybe you are one of the fortunate folks who have the financial wherewithal to pursue the individuals, or companies, that swipe your patented ideas for their own gain. Believe me, it makes me happy if that is the case. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who have patents issued each year are not so well endowed financially and, as a result, they can only sit and watch as they are functionally ripped-off by someone else.</p>
<p>Thank you for your contribution here, Roger. It&#8217;s always good to hear from the other side of the argument and I wish you great success in your efforts.</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Chris Ostlind</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Loving</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Loving</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 13:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-143</guid>
		<description>Chris, I have to disagree. I&#039;ve been the inventor as well as the author on patents dozens of times....both the solo and group type.  It is not difficult to learn how to write a patent and to do the required drawings. 
     Patents are easy to do and a source of pride to most people. That&#039;s value right there. The patent process assigns the inventor the legal right to a short period of exclusivity, and offers in exchange to publish the invention for the benefit of the public good. Please note that publication happens to everyone&#039;s advantage no matter how an inventor chooses to exercise the exclusivity.
     Protecting one&#039;s rights is a whole different subject from the patent process. 
    Thank you,  Roger Loving</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I have to disagree. I&#8217;ve been the inventor as well as the author on patents dozens of times&#8230;.both the solo and group type.  It is not difficult to learn how to write a patent and to do the required drawings.<br />
     Patents are easy to do and a source of pride to most people. That&#8217;s value right there. The patent process assigns the inventor the legal right to a short period of exclusivity, and offers in exchange to publish the invention for the benefit of the public good. Please note that publication happens to everyone&#8217;s advantage no matter how an inventor chooses to exercise the exclusivity.<br />
     Protecting one&#8217;s rights is a whole different subject from the patent process.<br />
    Thank you,  Roger Loving</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lunadadesign</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>lunadadesign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-139</guid>
		<description>Hey Michael,

I can really relate to that second paragraph of yuors about the alternate process for bringing a small production item to the marketplace.

The patent process can be a weird and convoluted maze of thoughts and pure outlay of cash; sometimes good and sometimes not so good.

I wish you all the best in your folding kayak endeavor and would be excited to here how things are going as you get closer to your unveiling. Feel free to write me directly as I&#039;d like to hear how things are going for you.

Best,

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Michael,</p>
<p>I can really relate to that second paragraph of yuors about the alternate process for bringing a small production item to the marketplace.</p>
<p>The patent process can be a weird and convoluted maze of thoughts and pure outlay of cash; sometimes good and sometimes not so good.</p>
<p>I wish you all the best in your folding kayak endeavor and would be excited to here how things are going as you get closer to your unveiling. Feel free to write me directly as I&#8217;d like to hear how things are going for you.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: lunadadesign</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>lunadadesign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-138</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike,

Your letter is a powerful testament to the driving burn of invention. It seems to be a thing that is &quot;just there&quot; for a small group of folks who&#039;s minds never rest. You are very much one of those guys and I share your joy in the process.

I just got your email and I&#039;ll respond to your interest in the Z65 as soon as I dig myself out of a small pile of obligations.

Best,

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike,</p>
<p>Your letter is a powerful testament to the driving burn of invention. It seems to be a thing that is &#8220;just there&#8221; for a small group of folks who&#8217;s minds never rest. You are very much one of those guys and I share your joy in the process.</p>
<p>I just got your email and I&#8217;ll respond to your interest in the Z65 as soon as I dig myself out of a small pile of obligations.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.lunadadesign.com/should-i-patent-my-widget-for-the-boat-industry.html/comment-page-1#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lunadadesign.com/?p=159#comment-137</guid>
		<description>I have also been through this process. I came up with an idea for a new kind of folding kayak (simple, cheap, superlightweight, folds in 1min) and after a year of prototypes I tried to get a patent ($6000) and a year later (and another dozen prototypes) I found out it was not patentable and the lawyer wanted another $2500 to take another stab at it. I realized that even if I got a valid patent it would be relatively easy to change a few things about it to get around the patent, and like you don&#039;t have the megabucks to chase an infringer anyway.

I now think that the way to go is to get the idea out in the world and try to get as much publicity as you can so you have a head start on the copiers. Make your big bucks in the first year and then when the copies come out slash your price to stop them from getting any of your marketshare, meanwhile you come out with the next generation. Rinse and repeat as needed.
I am currently ironing out some production details and setting up manufacturing. Hopefully I will be selling thousands of these things by the summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have also been through this process. I came up with an idea for a new kind of folding kayak (simple, cheap, superlightweight, folds in 1min) and after a year of prototypes I tried to get a patent ($6000) and a year later (and another dozen prototypes) I found out it was not patentable and the lawyer wanted another $2500 to take another stab at it. I realized that even if I got a valid patent it would be relatively easy to change a few things about it to get around the patent, and like you don&#8217;t have the megabucks to chase an infringer anyway.</p>
<p>I now think that the way to go is to get the idea out in the world and try to get as much publicity as you can so you have a head start on the copiers. Make your big bucks in the first year and then when the copies come out slash your price to stop them from getting any of your marketshare, meanwhile you come out with the next generation. Rinse and repeat as needed.<br />
I am currently ironing out some production details and setting up manufacturing. Hopefully I will be selling thousands of these things by the summer.</p>
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